An interview with Karen Berger of Daytona’s Don Kiki Cigar Superstore and K by Karen cigar company. Karen shares her inspiring life story with the listeners that includes triumphs and tragedies. Karen has worked in tobacco factories, fields and retail and is a brand owner and has unique experiences that make her one of the cigar industry’s leading women.
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SHOW TRANSCRIPT:
Antoine Reid 0:00
You’re listening to deep cuts with ant one read. Episode 45. Karen Berger, Don Kiki Cigars.
How are you?
Karen Berger 0:26
Hi, how are you?
Antoine Reid 0:28
I’m doing good. Well. Thank you for for joining me today. I know you’re very busy person.
Karen Berger 0:36
Yeah, thank you for inviting me.
Antoine Reid 0:38
Yeah. Well, like I said, we haven’t had the pleasure of speaking in person. So I thought I’d take advantage of this the virtual digital age that we’re in and get you on an Instagram Live to kind of remedy that.
Karen Berger 0:53
It’s a great opportunity. Thank you again for the invitation.
Antoine Reid 1:00
Yeah, definitely. Like I said, I work for Tobacco Business magazine. So I know that you came up in our own awards last year, in the in the Woman of the Year category, so ever since then, I’ve been wanting to speak to you and do a story on us, I thought this would be a good precursor to maybe a bigger story that we can do in tobacco business to kind of get to know you and what you have going on.
Karen Berger 1:28
Yes, I feel I felt really, really glad and really proud to be part of that part of nomination. It means a lot to me, and also means also be … [to] have this nomination between these beautiful ladies of the leaf, who has a lot of experience and also knowledge.
Antoine Reid 1:52
So, um, what I like to do with these is I like to get a little bit of background information on you. And then I like to talk about your business and everything that you do there and give people a chance to ask questions that they have any questions to ask you.
Karen Berger 2:08
All right. Of course.
Antoine Reid 2:10
But kind of, I guess was to start at the beginning, kind of let us know, how did you get into the cigar industry and get involved with tobacco?
Karen Berger 2:19
Okay, um, well, I started in the business when I was 18. I decided to work in a cigar factory in Nicaragua, in Esteli, Nicaragua. At that time, I was also a student in my career as a business administration. So I don’t have enough money to cover my expenses. So I decided to go and work in a factory. So as all the beginning workers … so we have some kind of process. First, we’ll start … practice, learning all the process. So I was in the production area, rolling tobacco. In Nicaragua, we work in a couple, usually, men are bunching the cigar, women are rolling the cigar. So I started rolling the cigar in the production area. So I was I was 18 years old. I was there around more than one year working. At that time, also, I met the owner of the factory, which is my husband, who passed away, Mr. Don Kiki Berger. And we met, we fell in love, and we married. So at that time, I know I was more involved in all the process as the packing area administration area, [?], and also something about the growing tobacco, too, because we have the factory and the farm in the same place. So we had that, as most companies do, but we had the cigar process from the seed to your hands.
Antoine Reid 4:04
So you talked about rolling cigars, which I’ve I’ve definitely have tried it once is not my thing. So I noticed this a challenging, it’s not an easy thing as people may think it is. So you know, what was it like? Specifically kind of working in the factory area? Because like, I know that factories are kind of where everything begins and the whole heart of the industry. So what what was it like to kind of get your start in the industry there rather than you know, in retail or in some other part of the business?
Karen Berger 4:43
Yeah. When I started working in the factory, it was not easy. And you can see people rolling cigars you could think it was the easy part. But we had to do a lot of quality control because we are using the wrapper and the wrapper is very, it is a material that can be damaged. So that’s the most difficult part for me. But then when I experience help a lot, you know, when you are working and you love what you do, and also when you put all the interest and the thing that you are doing is amazing. And when you love what you do, then it’s more easy to do that, but has not been easy also when then I was working in the factory and also having an having an encounter all the different process or they have a factory the production and everything. So every operation has some kind of difficult parts. Now I am more involved in the factory, blending my my cigars that this is the part that I love a lot. Having the capacity to create something by myself to bring all my people all of my cigar family, that the most important part for me.
Antoine Reid 6:08
When you’re starting to work on a blend, I mean, where do you start? Do you look at the different tobaccos you want to work with? Do you kind of go for a certain flavor profile? Like how did you start that process?
Karen Berger 6:18
Yeah, when I am looking for creating a new blend, it has some difficult parts, you know. We have … I carry two different brands. And sorry, I carry Don Kiki cigars and also K by Karen Berger. Karen Berger comes in three different wrappers Connecticut, Habano, and Maduro. And in Don Kiki cigars we have also 8 different blends. We work with Habano, we work with Arapico [?], as well as Connecticut. So when you started thinking about creating a new blend, I also know is not only thinking about what is the thing that I like, it is also thinking as an owner of a cigar store, so I had the [?] in the retail area as well our [?] areas, so I am looking for, asking, or looking for what people was my my customer asked me for do something new, what they liked it. So they, as in what they like and also base and they created something different that I have. So that’s the idea when I propose or when I intend to create a new blend make something different, different that I don’t have in the market right now. And also something different that people are asking.
Antoine Reid 7:50
Now, I know you probably get this question a lot. But you know, the cigar industry is so male oriented, everything is kind of geared towards the men in the industry. But it’s great that in the last couple of years, we’ve seen women really take their place in the industry and come out from behind the scenes just because you speak to anybody in the industry. And they always tell you that women have been involved in the cigar industry since the beginning. And now you know, I think more people are recognizing their contributions to the industry. So can you just talk a little bit about, you know, the women in the industry and what we don’t all get to see. Because I know like I said different media portray the industry as just being about men, but we know that that’s not the case.
Karen Berger 8:40
You’re right, but if we back to the history, we see that for many many years ago, women have been playing an important part in the cigar industry. As you know, in the cigar factory, I can say between 70-75% of people working are women. So women have a lot of power in the cigar industry even though we are not the face of the company but or manufacturers and but we are working before so I think that right now we are breaking some kind of stereotype. Right now, women are more involved as a manufacturers, as a smoker and before in this industry with a lot of knowledge because he had the knowledge. So we are more educated and even in everything about the cigar industry. So I think that we are making great progress. That’s our industry dominate really well by men. But today we are doing the difference. I am really glad for all the support that I am receiving from many groups of women of the smokers, I am really like also support different woman who are manufacture who has her own brands. So I like to support other women.
Antoine Reid 10:21
No, it’s great. You’re fine.
Karen Berger 10:24
I live in Miami. I live in between Miami and Nicaragua. And I went to Miami Dade College in Miami. But the only thing that I learned was Cuban instead of English.
Antoine Reid 10:38
You know what, I went to the University of Miami for a year. And I think I was the only person there who didn’t speak Spanish. So I got to see both sides of it. Because I remember we had a teacher come in, you know, I took Spanish class and I was trying to learn Spanish. And I just couldn’t get it. It wasn’t it was going over my head. And I remember, the teachers boss came in one time and she was going around this you’re speaking Spanish to the boss. And she was like, you know, this is, you know, this is these are my students. You know, this person does this and she got me She said, this is Anton. He’s a great guy, he doesn’t know Spanish and the instructor just like okay, and I was like, I understood I just can’t like communicate back. So I understand what it’s like sometimes kind of having that language barrier, but it’s I understand that you just wait
Karen Berger 11:35
Yes, and for me at the end of the day they do to break all the boundaries, you know? It doesn’t matter what languages do you speak or how do you speak at the end of the day I can say many great things about my cigar at the end of the day, it’s your word, it’s your palate that decides if it is a good cigar or not. I say personally that this cigar speaks for itself.
Antoine Reid 12:04
Yeah, and that’s in a desert Good point. And I know you talked about like how you have those two brands that you’re that you’re working with so when it came to create the K by Karen brand I mean how was that how did you create that brand because I know that that’s that has like your face on it is has your name on its I know that that must have felt special to you know put yourself into that cigar and that blend so what was that process like bringing that to life
Karen Berger 12:34
My husband will be was in September of this year 6 years, he passed away. So when he passed away my idea always was to carry on with his legacy, working with his brands so he has four original blends of Don Kiki cigars and I created two new blends in Don Kiki cigars which was Don Kiki Platinum we were in the Top 25 number 18 in the best cigar of the Year in Cigar Journal. And also I worked with in the Don Kiki gold label which was the last blend that made … so that’s the first time that’s my first idea keeping his legacy promoting his brand and do everything to keep his name alive. But then listened to the advice of friends in the industry and they told me, “Why don’t you create your own brand?” So I was thinking and thinking so I decided okay, so well that was when I create my K by Karen Berger, but also with the ideas they keep also history alive. If you think about the K, that come here is coming also in all labels of Don Kiki. So I decided to put this same K over here and the K belongs to my name and also belongs to Kiki’s name. The idea is to create a new blend but also having his name having his presence in my new blends. What I started in 2006 I introduced my two my two blends at the iccpr which was the K by Karen Berger Habano and the Maduro. Both use a [?] wrapper, but all the filler and binder come from my farm in Nicaragua. I put a lot of love and a lot of heart. Very bad, that kind of blends because I’ll say before, to have something different that the other brands or the other blends are [?]. This is a different size that I am using different, a different format. In all my K cigars I use the the box press, I like box press, so that you have a really good rating, no both cigars 91-92 in most magazine, I am really proud of that. But that was the first idea. The design was created by Manny Diaz, who were with Franco’s family, so a lot of things that define me in the, in the label of the cigar is three words that had the label. The three words that are passion, loyalty, and courage. So that define myself, because I am a person who work a lot. But I like to, because for me, it’s a passion [?] to be here to have some kind of presence as a woman in this industry.
Antoine Reid 16:16
So, no, I remember when we were doing the awards for tobacco business, and your name came up, you know, so many people, including Janine Perdomo, who ended up winning that category. You know, they had so many nice things to say about you. I remember, Janine was saying that, you know, you have such an interesting story that you’ve been through so much, and yet you came through it, you know, even better and stronger. So could you tell us about like, for you, like, what’s been the most challenging part, like, experience that you’ve had to go through? And how did you get past that, that trouble or that experience
Karen Berger 16:55
It has been really difficult for me. As I say before, thank you, for everybody who is connecting right now to the live. As I say before, we are a small company, but we have verticals versus we growing, we own tobacco, and have the factory, the farm, and also our retail store. So we tell a story from part of the job that I have a lot of knowledge, as well, in the production area in the factory was something new that I learned when my husband passed away, he was the face of the company. So when he passed, that’s the time thatI had to be the face of the company, having all of these responsibilities in my bag. One of the most difficult things for me, at that time was growing tobacco, that my very experience was in 2016, my first crop. Oh my God, so I was really, really nervous. And also that part I don’t have idea and have any experience about growing tobacco, nothing like that. I had people who were with me for a long time ago. But also the older or, or the economic responsibility was by myself only by myself. So for me, that’s why when I see a lot of pressure and that, by the way, be that so I made my first crop with any law by myself with my own money, it’s a lot of sacrifice. And we say two boys and some kind of see at that time. So we were working we are thinking in that time to make a lot of production but then I will see that at that we weren’t using the seed that we were growing. So I didn’t have any any blends that use this the tobacco the tobacco seed that I was a growing at that time. So while we had a really good production, we had a really good I really do crop. But then I have a lot of tobacco. I didn’t know what to do with this amount of tobacco. So I said, what is the next step? So we kept a lot of viso ligero for our production. But also I started to sell in the tobacco … the raw tobacco to Dominican Republic. That helped me a lot. It was really difficult at that time, you know, because I can’t say I did really bad. I did well, I did really well. So I looked for other ways to recouperate my money and also work and keeping with all the liabilities that the factory have, that for me, that was the most difficult experience. Being or having all of the processes in the factory aand farms is really hard, though, when you have a really good team working with you and also asking for some advice, I say that I am very humble person. And I don’t know, too many things. So I like to learn everyday. And this industry, we have a lot of diveristy, a lot knowledge, a lot of different techniques. So I am open every day to learn something new. So in about my little mistakes or big mistakes, I am learning a lot of everything.
Antoine Reid 21:09
So what’s the last new thing that you learned recently? Just to go out that question.
Karen Berger 21:17
Yes. Well, in the blending process, so also, that part about Okay, before I was really new in that part, now, I am more involved to 2016 then was really difficult to learn the different characteristics of the different tobacco leaves. So that was amazing experience to have the capacity to right now know every one of my blends and happy even that was my clothes size, or a different type of opportunity to differentiate the different layers that I have to learn about the different tobacco leaves and all this stuff. It is amazing.
Antoine Reid 22:13
So tell us a little bit more about your store, because I know that’s a big part of your your business as well.
Karen Berger 22:20
Yes, we are located in Daytona Beach. So we are at 7,000 square feet, have a walk-in humidor. And I carry and support a lot of premium and boutique cigars. I can say that 50% of the cigars that we carry here in the store, Don Kiki Cigars Superstore, are boutique cigars. I like to support every person who is in the same condition as me – the small companies. that we are knocking doors. And I feel that I am in the same place. I went to everybody give me the opportunity that I carry in my presence that made me happy. If I can help other people, I do. I do that. We have on the second floor a lounge. We had a pool table. And we had a really nice view of the ocean because we are in front of the ocean.
Antoine Reid 23:23
And where’s your store at?
Karen Berger 23:26
Daytona Beach.
Antoine Reid 23:27
Okay, awesome. So where do you feel most alive in the factory, or the store or the tobacco field.
Karen Berger 23:35
Um, everything in Nicaragua, that I want my factory under the wasapi is located in the same place. And also my house is there. So I had the opportunity to be there to wake up in the morning. And also can see the tobacco fields from my house because I live on the mountains. So in the morning time, I can see the tobacco leaves … the tobacco field. And I enjoy a lot to be in the factory to be in the farm to be in the tobacco field. That’s the that’s the most beautiful part that I enjoy a lot. And seeing how the tobacco, It is amazing.
Antoine Reid 24:20
Talk a little bit about working with other people in the industry. Because when people talk about the cigar industry, they never understand how much collaboration and working with different brands and brand owners goes on. So just kind of tell us about working with some of the other like you said, boutique people in the industry and the different families like the Perdomos. Just talk about just what goes on behind the scenes because we’re all kind of interested in in what we don’t get to see.
Karen Berger 25:02
Yes, I think that we are a cigar family so even that I carry or I have some kind of collaboration with premium or boutique cigars, we are a cigar family. I think that I see that support that we have support between each other. As you say I have Perdomo, I have Gabie Kaffie here in the store. Amazing cigar from Honduras. So for me it’s not a competition. for me is a is a key word. The cigar industry is really big. There are different customer that are different products. So everybody has the opportunity to have his own brand you know, and because for me we have a lot of barriers. I think that in the collaboration area, I receive a lot of support of many people in the cigar industry. I have the support of amazing people as Jonathan Drew from Drew Estate who is my really good friend and also work with Manny with all the knowledge and I feel really proud because I know it is that kind of person who has a lot of recognition in this this in this industry because as we say has been working for a long time with the Fuentes family who make amazing cigars that I carry here in my store and also. I folllow Liana Fuente as well as Cynthia Fuente. For me, both ladies are big examples to follow, as well as Janine Perdomo who I was really glad won. She won because she is amazing, supporting her husband’s brand of all the awards that she has to this day.
Antoine Reid 27:09
So, you know, this year has been a challenge for everybody. And this caused a lot of us to have to do business and do what we do in a completely different way to get over this pandemic. So how has the pandemic kind of changed your business or how you approach business?
Karen Berger 27:30
Well, I think that has been the COVID situation has been sometimes a really positive thing. For me, even though we had a really bad time because the store was were closed for almost two months. In that two months We opened a new way to survive in this pandemic situation, so we created a website that we didn’t have before. And right now is working and also help allow between the retail store and also website. And, and also another positive thing is that as a family I have I have even more time to enjoy with my family. Karen Berger is first is a mother is a woman that is really blessed to be part of this cigar industry. And the last thing is that we have also really bad time in Nicaragua. So for all these big things for close flights, delayed flights and everything, we lose a lot of opportunity to bring our or merchandise or cigars to United States as well to send to another country. Karen Berger not only has its own brand and also I work on other private label. I make private label for Europe, Germany, Switzerland so that’s a that kind of situation affects us a lot. But thank God we’ve survived. I’ve seen that the cigar industry has been affected by others things but we are strong. So right now all the The situation has changed very dramatically because we are doing better. So I don’t know maybe because people will say more income they they are smoking more. So we are we are selling increase in the part of the best in my retail area in my wholesale area. So we have opened more accounts. So I am really happy with that even though there were really bad months. But before rain the storm appears. We are doing great since that.
Antoine Reid 30:18
I always like to ask people like you who’ve had so much success, especially in business, you know, what have you learned about yourself, since you’ve kind of gone into business for yourself, because you could easily have found a job working for somebody else. But the fact that you’ve chosen, you know, to create a business to support yourself, what have you learned about yourself in this process?
Karen Berger 30:45
I think that everybody that has a dream has to go forward and do it. Nothing comes easy. Everything that you want to have, you need to work a lot. So I learned that I am a strong woman, and also that I can do whatever I want to do. It took a lot of time. And also in these a lot of times, I can do a lot of mistakes. But for every mistake that I did, I learned. And also for every door that is closed for me, I know that another door is open for me. So thank God, and I have a lot of faith. And I know that every person has a poossibility–it is not easy, but has a possibility to reach the dream. I didn’t reach my dream, I am working for my dream. I know that I have the power. I know I have the knowledge. And I know that I require more knowledge. And with all the support, and also with all the love that people give it to me and for every comment that I received gives me more strength to keep doing what I was doing.
Antoine Reid 32:10
You know, what’s your advice for other women who want to come into this industry? Because I know that some of them feel a little bit intimidated, like we talked about earlier, because they see so many men dominating this industry. So what’s your advice to the women want to be part of this industry and the more, you know, predominant way.
Karen Berger 32:31
My advice is that we need, we need to educate. I think that women, we need to educate, to show men that we have the knowledge or the capacity to be in the in this industry. I say that we need to prove to ourselves that we can do it and be more strong and have more confidence in ourselves that we can do it. So I recommend that every woman that has to be part of this industry, it’s not easy because we have, as I say before, there’s a stigma that we don’t know, or we don’t have the knowledge. Even when I have here in my store. I give you an example. For some reason I am in the register and some new customers coming to my store and asked me Hi, how are you? How can I help you? And they look at me? What do you know about cigars? And so we need to change that. So I recently irritation even for me, I am trying to learn everyday something new. So with more education, we can really grow this part of the cigar industry and not to show only the capacity to be here with knowledge and more power.
Antoine Reid 34:09
Yeah, talking about education, I mean, that’s such an important part of the cigar industry and moving it forward. You know, what are some of the things that people just the basic cigar smoker should you know strive to learn about about this industry and about cigars in particular.
Karen Berger 34:30
One important thing for me is to have a bit of respect of every consumer or every person who has smoked cigars. So part of the education as a smoker, I am not talking about manufacturers. So I am talking about the smoker. Every person has to know to create one cigar is more than 200 people working on that cigar. There are different blends, different tastes, different palates. I would like to everybody people know that we need to respect. If you buy one cigar and you don’t like it, it doesn’t mean that that cigar’s bad. Doesn’t mean that that cigar is not for you. We need to learn the every process that has a cigar for being your hands. We are talking about years since the seed is in the field until you have your cigar. It’s a lot of work, it’s a lot of sacrifice. I would like people to know the different process that we have to give you one cigar that seems from when the tobacc is in the field, or the process of the aging of the raw material. And then of the aging when the tobacco is finished and all the work that we do. First is the respect for the seed that you are smoking. I would like everybody to know, one part of the education is also know that there are cigars for different palates out there, there are different blends and cigars also. Cigars depend on their origin also have different characters. Dominican Republic, the taste of the ciar is really different than Nicaraguan cigars. Cigar is very different … the taste of Cuban cigars, which are really good too. So people need to know or learn a little more about the difference a characteristic of every tobacco depending on the origin of the tobacco as a manufacturer, everything as well everything for me that I learned every day every day is different techniques. For example, in create some kind of the way that we work different countries. So sometimes is more easy than the way that we work in Nicaragua using different things to improve and improve a improve the scenes when we are talking about the production area. Using some kind of machine that they tell you how much the way the cigar is. I didn’t know exactly how to say the name of the machine right now. But there are many things to learn. And also in the in the field, growing tobacco. There are new different techniques also. I am old fashioned, I am using the old techniques maybe but also I am open to learn the new techniques to growing tobacco.
Antoine Reid 37:54
Now a question that a lot of people usually have is, you know, what’s the difference between say Nicaraguan tobacco and American grown tobacco? Is there a certain characteristic or attribute this difference between the two tobaccos
Karen Berger 38:10
For me, I am blessed because I had the opportunity to try different cigars because I carry them here in my store. One of the difference between Nicaraguan and Dominican [is that] Nicaraguan usually has a more bitter taste than Nicaraguan will have more earthiness taste because of the volcanic soil. So for me, it all depends on your experience, you have the possibility to know or to taste that kind of difference between both cigars that are really good in both styles. I love Dominican, love Fuentes, I love Villiger, I love Romeo y Julieta from Dominican. But yes.
Antoine Reid 39:09
You know when you think about your brand, you know, where do you want to take it from here? Do you want more cigar lines to add to your brand? Or do you want to expand your store? Like what what’s next for you, you and your business?
Karen Berger 39:26
We are working on different projects. This year was very tough for everybody. So we lost the opportunity to go to many different places to make the representation of our new project. But yes, Karen Berger has been working for years on two different blends that maybe it [?] next year. So it’s amazing [?] Also, two different blends, one in K by Karen Berger and the other in Don Dkiki cigars. And also keep working on promotion for my brand. This is traveling around the world, around United States and Britain, and also telling people here we are.
Antoine Reid 40:22
That’s awesome. You know, just for people who are interested in in business, in general, maybe it’s not cigars, but you know, for people who just want to start their own business. I mean, what’s your advice to just anybody to how to get started on that drain of, I guess, independence and not having to work for somebody else.
Karen Berger 40:47
It’s really hard, you know. I am not from this country. I am American citizen right now. But I am really thankful for this country that has opened the door for me. That inside me basis is, is something that you can have some kind of problem, but also is not impossible. I have been working along with my team, [?]. So everything that I we are doing has been very difficult, but having this thing and also asking for some advice, you know? because nobody knows many things. So the idea is, for me, I’m always asking for some help or advice, because I have many things that I know. But recently I, I go on your life and from Ohio, I didn’t know that. We had to get a license to have the opportunity to sell our cigar over there. So now we get our licenses and new things and new challenge. If you’re looking for some help, for sure, is not easy, but also not impossible. Not not only for looking at to open a new business in the cigar industry for all the business that you want to open. I think that we are in, in a country where we have a lot of a lot of opportunity. Yes, everybody can do it.
Antoine Reid 42:33
think that’s awesome. And we have a few minutes left. But I know you I would love for you to talk about your husband some surprises who didn’t have the chance to meet him or know him. You know, what kind of person was the What did you learn from him?
Karen Berger 42:51
Um, Don Kiki Berger was an amazing and wonderful person. If you had the opportunity to ask anybody in the cigar industry who had the opportunity to meet him, they would tell you that he was a friendly person. He wanted to support everybody. He wanted to help everybody. He was a big guy, because he has a big heart. And oh, my, he was my, my professor, he teached me a lot of things. So that’s why I’ve been keeping his name alive. He started in the business in the 90s in Nicaragua with his own factory. He was working and dealing with private labels, and then he decided to create his own brand, Don Kiki. And it’s personal for me that nobody forget him. And that is the person because I am working and will be working until my last day to keep these me alive. Because he deserves it and more.
Antoine Reid 44:12
And how does it feel after all these years to I know you’re working on saving his legacy, but also you have a legacy of your own. So how does it feel after all these years, to have so many people in the industry look up to you and recognize you just for your work and your contributions to the industry.
Karen Berger 44:35
Working in my legacy for me the few things that I was thinking as this sounds kind of expensive to my kids. I had one boy and two daughters. So at the beginning the the first thing that are going through my mind, they know all the passion and all the work that Karen Berger has and all the strength that I have to keep and to be in some kind of business as his government or by mouth. So we are embracing a stereotype. So, I want to people know, they remember me first because I create with a lot of patience that we are a lot of passion one brand to be enjoyed not only for a woman to be enjoyed to everybody. And second, and I worked with a lot of a lot of passion to be here with a lot of work. So as a woman, I think that we can do it, we can be here, and I want people remember me how people legacy for some person that work with a lot of passion. And there’s a lot of love for this, too, because the first thing that you need to know, of course, is that that fact that industry give us some kind of profit, but also a lot of work.
